Electrical Engineering & Electronics Design

Jason ;

I come from the Cadence realm and was going to switch to Altium since Altium is the only 'real-time' interactive CAD software with SolidWorks.

However, since AWR was acquired by Cadence, i have have since changed my mind since RF, EMC, PI, and SI are now fully covered, i will probably stay with Cadence/OrCad.

OrCAD is the simpliest schematic capture product in the CAE industry; i know since i have tried them all since 1990. IMHO, Mentor (Mental) Graphics is the worst ! The thing is that before Viewlogic (the original schematic) was incorporated, it was one of the best, but since it evolved, its uni-directional approach with *required* library links makes it one of the most unwieldy.

I have used Protel on a Macintosh IIci in 1990 and Protel '99 was the emerging tool back then. Altium's attempt to cram every little widget is probably why its so un-user friendly. It's simplier original form had pop-ups for simple changes, but as people have found over time, pop-ups are annoying, especially for CAD tool jockeys that need to use the tools for more than just a couple of weeks.

Since Protel (Altium) allowed importing OrCAD databases into its program a long time ago, its still possible to use cross-platform support, but they would not recommend this especially if you have to back annotate.

If you don't need any BGA packages, you might want to look into these other CAE tools for PCB layout (other than Cadence or Mentor (now Siemens)) :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_EDA_software

KiCAD seems to be gaining some traction, especially from the Linux and Mac community, but you-get-what-you-pay-for.

ADS (Keysight) is listed but is really for simulations and is pricey too.

Eagle (now part of AutoCAD) is a hobbiest tool and only good fore really simple designs.

Designspark was abandoned and is pointing to another tool now.

I personally don't like anything from Autodesk since it is designed to tie into the AutoCAD realm and is a kludge.

Zuken has been around a long time and is from Japan. I have not used it but it is considered a higher end tool.

You might want to look into Diptrace :

https://diptrace.com/diptrace-software/pcb-layout/

There's more interest in on-line type of software (cloud based) like this one from EasyEDA :

https://easyeda.com/

One last option is to get professional training from Altium that may help with your style of how you are using the tools, since there are many way to enter the data.

In the past started with Mentor Graphics, viewdraw and pads. Viewdraw sucks and pads was great. But with pads, a major drawback was that each additional tool (for example autorouter) required a separate license.

Then switched to altium. The big advantage was that everything fell under 1 license. Like any software package, altium has pro, cons and things that could be done better. It took some time to get used to working style of altium. After that it works fine.

It's true what steven says 'a option is to get training from Altium that may help with your style of how you are using the tools, since there are many way to enter the data.'

I personally use Altium in combination with Solid works virtually every day. It is a very powerful tool when you know how to use it.

The question really is though.

Should software packages be designed so badly that you are forced to pay for training courses just to be able to use them?

First and foremost, I am a system design engineer. From a system design engineering perspective Altium is designed really badly on the basis it appears to be intentionally designed to be un-intuitive.

Imagine if all software packages including all aps on your phone were designed so badly to require training just to be able to work with them. Imagine if all games required training just to be able to use them. Imagine if all electrical appliances were designed so badly to require training just to function them.

That is some crazy food for thought.

Thanks for the comments Steven and Singlefonts.

I had the same problem, but with the software packages : SEE Electrical https://www.ige-xao.com/nl/winkel/see-electrical/

@Xgentec,

Have you used OrCAD? Out of Mentor, Cadence, and Altium I've found Altium to be the most intuitive to use.

Hello Jason,

Hope life is treating you well.

I have never tried OrCAD.

I stated with NI Multisim and Ultiboard and I still use this software even today for circuit simulation. I actually really like that software for circuit design and simulation. I then transfer these designs over to Altium.

Really shocked you find Altium intuitive. It must be a perspecive related thing where some people think in different ways.

I have been using Altium now for some time. I wont be changing over now.

Many thanks for the comment Jason.

I had a look Singlefonts,

Looks interesting but I have gone way too far to steer away from Altium now. Could give it a try one day though.

many thanks.

Hello Steven,

As usual always a good comment.

I have gone way to far down the rabbit hole with Altium to turn back.

I know I lost tons of data in a multiple server crash but I am building up my archive again.

Most of my PCB designs are about as small as it gets at the moment or as small as the fabrication plants can handle without price going drastically up. 0.16mm trace width kind of area.

I have to start doing videos on this stuff. System design engineering.

I keep saying it !!!! Just got to do it.

Just wanted to clarify. The goal of this post is constructive feedback and not to put people off Altium software.

I personally use altium every day and it is my choice for professional PCB design. Altium is incredibly powerful if the effort is put in to master the software.

My post is aimed at giving truthful input and feedback to create a push to improve the software from a system design engineering perspective in areas that need improvment.

Have a good day from Xgentec Jason

Solidworks has worked *with* their customers for a long time and the interface is *still* the best in the industry (i have talked to users of Siemens NX, Dassault Catia, Autodesk Inventor, and Creo/ProE users).

Although there are many other *powerful* feature rich capabilities of the higher end software, the key to MASS user acceptable is the ability to learn and use the software as naturally as possible.

I purchased SolidWorks in 2007 for my business and started using it in 2013 when i joined grabcad. I actually paid $1,600 (USD) for one solid week of training and then tried to use the software a few months later.

I needed to create a solar cell disk (4" x 4" wafer) and i spent WEEKS trying make *ONE* part !!

I finally broke down and called tech support (which i already paid for) and discussed my situation with the person on the phone. He was amazed how many elements and processes that i used to create this proverbial 'ball-of-strings'.

It took him about 30 minutes to go thru the entire part generation process in order to teach me and re-wire my brain for SolidWorks.

The problem was this : I thinking about DRAWING a part !!

What i should have been doing is : designing by MODELING a part !!

Now i know that sound trivial and obvious to most MEs today, but bear in mind that i learned on a drafting board in 1980 and constructed DRAWINGs until *that* time (2013). This was also using many other CAD programs like AutoCAD (2D, 2.5D birdcage, non-parametric), CADKey, Viso Pro, MacPaint, MacDraw, ... etc)

Also all Electrical Engineering databases and documentation is for 2D drawings of schematics, layers of PCBs, SPICE simulations, etc.

So perhaps you need to learn PROCESS again , not in what you already know, but in regard to what you need to know to do specifically for Altium to use it most effectively !!

Just because you *think* you know Altium, doesn't mean that you really do know how to use Altium most effectively !!

Case in point : there are many people who can create models in SolidWorks, but are completely clueless how that part is going to get manufactured by the design steps that they have in the model ; and they don't care !!

This is why CAM engineers have a fit over the non-nonsensical methods that MEs use to create the parts. It's because the majority of MEs DON'T UNDERSTAND CAM PROCESSES. - - Only by visiting the factory and seeing every step and talking with the manufacturer can the ME appreciate what steps and tolerances are applicable, but even then *still* need guidance based upon material properties and the *individual* factory capabilities.

In the same why i think that you need to revisit the Altium Process and see where you can make better use of your time by understanding all the capabilities of the *latest* versions. Investing in training and talking to the top pros on how to accomplish your goals *before* the project starts is also important for your CAE / CAD / CAM workflow.

Just like machining (subtractive) is different than 3d printing (additive) and there are things that you can do, should do, and should NOT do based upon each process, regardless if the part is identical.

Hello Steven,

I completely understand perspective and trying to look at things in different ways is important. The ability to adapt it very important.

I have no issue with using Altium. I cannot remember the last time I got stuck with any software to the point I could not resolve an issue.

The principle of a tool is to be intuitive and get a job done with as least effort as possible, fast and efficiently as possible.

If a tool does not fit the above criteria it is simply not well-designed.